Every otaku harbors that secret desire: “If only my favorite franchises could crossover—that would be the ultimate dream!” This partnership makes that fantasy a reality… Back in late 2023, DenfaminicoGamer facilitated an electrifying dialogue between Honkai: Star Rail’s producer David and Fate’s legendary creator Nasu Kinoko, igniting anticipation for potential creative synergies.
Now, fast forward to 2025.
To commemorate the collaboration, we present a groundbreaking dialogue between Honkai: Star Rail‘s lead writer Shaoji and Nasu Kinoko—held in Shanghai! Who could’ve imagined sharing a table with Nasu-sensei during Golden Week 2025 in China’s bustling metropolis?
But why Shanghai, you ask?
Originally, this talk was planned at TYPE-MOON’s Japanese offices, a scenario where Honkai: Star Rail’s team would visit Nasu’s creative sanctum. However, when presented with the proposal, Nasu-sensei responded: “Since HoYoverse came to us last time, it’s only fair that we reciprocate by visiting their home turf this round.
Thus, thanks to Nasu-sensei’s unwavering sense of fairness (?), we found ourselves crossing borders to Shanghai. This anecdote perfectly encapsulates TYPE-MOON’s signature ethos. On a side note: Nasu went straight from the airport to the venue with zero downtime—proof that creative giants never run out of energy.
However, the representative from Honkai: Star Rail, Shaoji, is every bit as passionate as Nasu-sensei. While Honkai series fans may already be familiar with him, few know he’s also a long-time devoted fan of TYPE-MOON’s works.
This dialogue features two master storytellers steering their respective narratives. Their conversation spans not just the collaboration itself, but also their creative processes.
Behind-the-scenes stories of how this crossover came to life. The “earnest” questions Shaoji wanted to ask Nasu as a fellow writer. The enduring “Ode to Humanity,” the generational shift in mobile gaming… This article documents a miraculous dialogue while capturing a pivotal “turning point of our era.”
As both a fan and a writer, I’m honored to present this piece—yet can’t help feeling a tinge of melancholy. I sincerely hope you’ll read it to the very end.
■Why did Honkai: Star Rail and Fate collaborate in the first place?
──First, could you both share how this collaboration came about? For Honkai: Star Rail, this marks its first crossover with an external IP. What made you choose Fate/stay night as a partner?
Shaoji:
Before anything, I must say: “Having this opportunity to speak with Nasu-sensei face-to-face today is truly an honor!”
In fact, I was also present during the 2023 dialogue between Star Rail producer Mr. David and Nasu-san. That encounter felt like a “miraculous meeting”… Moreover, we’d already had preliminary contact with TYPE-MOON before that talk, which eventually led to this collaboration.
(Placeholder: Insert crossover visuals/story details)
Shaoji:
This marks Honkai: Star Rail’s first in-game collaboration, so we deliberated intensely when selecting our partner. During these discussions, Producer David’s words kept echoing in our minds:
“When in doubt, ask yourself—what do players love? What does the team love? And what do you personally love?”
First, Fate/stay night’s art style aligns perfectly with Honkai: Star Rail. For this collaboration, we’re confident we can deliver visuals and performances that satisfy players. We also believe Star Rail can, to some extent, authentically recreate Fate/stay night’s worldview within our game.
Second, our team includes countless fans of the Fate series and TYPE-MOON’s works. When we pitched this collaboration internally, the excitement was palpable (laughs).
As for “what I personally love”—need I say more?
──So Shaoji-sensei himself is a hardcore fan, after all.
Shaoji:
Absolutely. That’s precisely why we aimed to create content that would satisfy both TYPE-MOON and players worldwide.
Moreover, as an RPG, Honkai: Star Rail shares DNA with Fate/Grand Order (hereafter FGO). Global players might sense “a shared essence” between them…!
When we nervously proposed this idea, TYPE-MOON’s enthusiastic response came swiftly. Through ongoing discussions, we gradually reached 80% confidence—”We can pull this off”—and officially kicked off the collaboration.
──Nasu-sensei, what were your initial thoughts upon hearing about collaborating with Honkai: Star Rail?
Nasu Kinoko:
I first encountered HoYoverse through Genshin Impact… Unlike that open-world RPG, when Honkai: Star Rail—a turn-based RPG—launched, I felt genuine fear.
HoYoverse’s development prowess is industry-leading. To achieve such polish so quickly reflects staggering talent and passion. If they tackled turn-based RPGs, they’d dominate.
As I started playing, I felt that the opening alone shattered mobile game conventions—its quality and investment far exceeded my expectations. My fear morphed into admiration. Honestly, I thought: “Ah, if only our characters could move like this…” But with FGO’s workload and Japan’s development constraints, I knew such fluidity was unrealistic for us.
Still, I kept playing Star Rail… Then during our earlier talk, I realized: despite differing backgrounds, we developers share identical otaku passions. That joy was profound.
When the collaboration was proposed, my reaction was 60% shock—”Wait, they’d work with us?!”—and 40% euphoria—”Heck yes! This rocks—!!” (laughs).
Everyone:
(Laughs)
── Regarding this collaboration, the playable characters implemented are “Saber” and “Archer”, while “Lancer” will appear as an NPC in the story, making a total of three Servants appearing in the crossover. How were these characters selected?
Shaoji:
Actually, the selection of collaboration characters might have been more straightforward and smooth than everyone imagined.
There are many popular characters in Fate/stay night, and the development team had to make choices. Considering that collaboration opportunities are rare, we first anchored Saber and Archer as the 5-star playable characters. However, to portray the Holy Grail War within the Honkai: Star Rail worldview, the expression of the ※”Three Knight Classes” concept was also crucial. It would indeed be quite regrettable if Lancer were absent. Fortunately, based on the development schedule, we still had the capacity to create an NPC, and the team was willing to add this character. In the end, Lancer will participate in this dreamlike Holy Grail War as an NPC.
※”Three Knight Classes”
The collective term for the three classes: Saber, Archer, and Lancer that appear in the Fate series. In the Fifth Holy Grail War depicted in Fate/stay night, the corresponding Three Knights are Artoria, Heroic Spirit Emiya, and Cú Chulainn.
── This collaboration includes a storyline about the Holy Grail War taking place in Penacony. How was this crossover storyline created?
Shaoji:
First of all, since we’re collaborating with Fate/stay night, it would be a shame not to have a “Holy Grail War”… So from the very beginning, we considered how to present the Holy Grail War through the Honkai: Star Rail worldview as a premise, and then designed the entire project plan around that idea.
Initially, we considered using the ※Simulated Universe, a relatively versatile setting, to advance the plot. But as discussions progressed, we began to feel that “for such a rare collaboration, keeping everything confined to a purely fictional space just isn’t as interesting.” Moreover, relying solely on the Simulated Universe wouldn’t have allowed us to capture the kind of tightly-crafted, data-driven Holy Grail War depicted in ※Fate/EXTRA CCC.
Then we started shifting our thinking to other worlds, and finally felt that Penacony was the most suitable. After all, Penacony is the land of dreams, where anything is possible in the dream world. Having the Holy Grail War take place in Penacony is simply perfect.
Additionally, one of Penacony’s themes is “the land where dreams are pursued”… People come to this dazzling metropolis to spend sleepless nights, chasing after what they “desire”. I feel this tone overlaps with the fundamental logic of the Holy Grail War: the theme of “battles fought to fulfill one’s wishes”.
Personally, the idea of “holding the Holy Grail War in Penacony” had already taken shape in my mind, along with some interesting ideas like “the Masters could be Honkai: Star Rail characters” and “the summoned Servants could be historical figures from Penacony”, etc.
※Simulated Universe
A simulation system developed by Herta and other members of the Genius Society in Honkai: Star Rail to study the Aeons. It randomly generates virtual enemies and maps in the form of code, serving as one of the game’s important dungeon gameplay modes.
※Fate/EXTRA CCC
A spin-off of the Fate series and sequel to Fate/EXTRA. Inheriting the sci-fi style worldview of its predecessor’s “Holy Grail War on the Moon”, it features an entirely new storyline. The main scenario was written by Nasu Kinoko and remains highly praised by fans to this day.
Shaoji:
With thoughts of “Will our ideas be accepted?”, we submitted the collaboration proposal to TYPE-MOON for review. To our great honor, both Nasu Kinoko-sensei and Takeuchi Takashi- sensei approved our vision.
Later, Nasu-sensei and Takeuchi-sensei provided some revision suggestions… Through this, I deeply felt the passion of creators dedicated to pure creative work, as well as the shared spirit of “wanting to bring joy to players”.
Looking back now, throughout this year-long collaboration, every piece of feedback from TYPE-MOON and every word of encouragement filled our development team with immense happiness.
Nasu Kinoko:
That’s exactly what I wanted to say: I’m truly delighted that everyone treated the Fate world with such genuine care, respect, and sincerity. You know how they say,”Otaku have no borders” and “Otaku will save the world”? Yeah—this collaboration really embodies that spirit!
──By the way, what role did Nasu-sensei play in this collaboration process?
Nasu Kinoko:
After the initial meeting, I received the draft proposal and judged that it could proceed as-is. Additionally, I offered minor suggestions regarding certain settings that felt slightly off. In that sense, it was incredibly smooth… To put it bluntly, it was super easy and enjoyable (laughs).
That said, I can now admit that early on, I had assumed they might use the “Simulated Universe” as a self-contained side story with decent narrative. But at the draft stage, we settled on Penacony as the stage, featuring characters like Robin. By fully leveraging Honkai: Star Rail’s character dynamics, they organically intertwined with Fate/stay night’s lore.
Seeing this, I honestly thought: “Ah, no wonder HoYoverse is so successful.” This collaboration didn’t take the easy, conventional route. Instead, it steered hard towards greater challenge—and greater fun.
That’s why I predicted early on that “I’d probably only need to tweak some dialogue details.” I’m thrilled the final product lived up to that expectation.
──Given this collaboration with Fate/stay night, players undoubtedly have high expectations for the story. For Shaoji-sensei, were there any aspects where you felt “This part absolutely needs extra attention” during development?
Shaoji:
As our game’s first collaboration, we naturally aimed to satisfy Honkai: Star Rail’s players while ensuring “newcomers drawn by this crossover won’t be disappointed” from the planning phase.
For example, we devoted significant effort to depicting the “Holy Grail War in Penacony.” What stories will unfold when Servants arrive in Penacony? Where will their journeys lead? What will Penacony’s characters gain? How will the Holy Grail War unfold?… Our core philosophy was to express both “Penacony” and “Holy Grail War” as dual themes.
We also recreated iconic Fate/stay night moments through playful Easter eggs… Ah, but saying more might spoil things (laughs).
Ultimately, the three writers assigned to this project were longtime TYPE-MOON fans, and their schedules allowed full immersion in the collaboration. Combined with Nasu-sensei’s invaluable feedback and supervision… Though the workload was intense, we’re very pleased with the results.
──Both of you mentioned Nasu-sensei’s input during development multiple times. What specific suggestions did he provide?
Nasu Kinoko:
Oh, just minute details really.
Like “Adjust the tone here.”
That said, I did offer one key note regarding Saber (Artoria):
“Artoria’s characterization differs between post-stay night and post-FGO eras. Early drafts depicted her with post-FGO traits, but had she been written with post-stay night nuances, her demeanor would shift like this—” This was my only major emphasis.
Shaoji:
Let me take this opportunity to once again express my deepest gratitude to Nasu-sensei.
The Fate series is a renowned IP cultivated over many years, and I’m profoundly thankful for the immense trust the rights holders placed in us. In truth, our team faces similar challenges—while continually developing the Honkai IP, determining “how much creative freedom to grant collaborative partners” is an incredibly difficult balance.
That’s precisely why the success of this collaboration hinges on TYPE-MOON’s approach: not imposing excessive restrictions while generously offering guidance and encouragement. My sincerest thanks once more!
Nasu Kinoko:
The pleasure is mine.
If anything, it’s your team’s exceptional comprehension that left no room for criticism… When reviewing the content, thoughts like “If the setting is X, then Y naturally follows” immediately clicked, requiring almost no revisions from me.
Choosing Penacony as the stage, casting “him” as the final boss… Every decision felt so organic it even moved me. I thought to myself, “Ah, I see… with this setup, it all fits together perfectly!”
──By the way, Shaoji-sensei, could you share what insights you gained from Nasu-sensei’s supervision? Any “Aha!” moments that reshaped your perspective?
Shaoji:
(Laughs) It‘s more accurate to say “every interaction“ was enlightening. While hard to itemize, the rarest treasure for us juniors was witnessing “how senpai perceive creativity.“ Across this year, we repeatedly realized: many challenges transcend individuals—they‘re generational quests countless creators have tackled. This “You‘re not alone“ resonance granted us determination and became our driving force.Thus, on behalf of our team, I reiterate our thanks to Nasu-sensei, Takeuchi Takashi-sensei, and all TYPE-MOON colleagues for your invaluable supervision and original artwork support!
Nasu Kinoko:
The gratitude is mutual.
■Shaoji-sensei’s “Earnest Questions” for Nasu Kinoko
──It seems Shaoji-sensei prepared some questions for Nasu-sensei from one writer to another. Shall we begin?
Shaoji:
Thank you very much.
Today, I’ll cast aside my reservations and ask Nasu-sensei a few questions.
First, TYPE-MOON’s works—including Fate, Tsukihime, ※Witch on the Holy Night, and others—are built on incredibly vast, intricate worlds. However, with subsequent derivative works like FGO and Fate/strange Fake, the continuous addition of new settings has made the lore increasingly complex…
When organizing these vast settings to ensure consistency and even plant seeds for future developments, what are your personal methods or insights, Nasu-sensei?
Nasu Kinoko:
Whoa, you’re hitting me with a sharp question right out the gate!
Everyone:
(Laughs).
Nasu Kinoko:
This might sound like hindsight bias, but… I define a “theme for the decade”—a creative directive like “This is what I’ll explore for the next 10 years.”
For example, for Witch on the Holy Night, I focused on “consumer culture.” That was my theme from 2000 to 2010. From 2011 onward with FGO, the theme shifted to “Taking responsibility for our consumption.”
Once the theme is set, I keep amplifying the mythic quality of the story.
Of course, sometimes there are fundamental changes along the way, but overall, it’s the same as always — continuously evolving the era’s sense of morality, justice, and aesthetics.And since the people around me — my rivals — are always coming up with interesting new ideas, I’ve had to keep sharpening myself as well, so I can strike an even deeper chord with the audience.
※Witch on the Holy Night
A legendary visual novel released by TYPE-MOON in 2012. Said to originally be an unpublished novel written by Nasu in his earlier years.
Nasu Kinoko:
As Shaoji-sensei noted, this approach inevitably leads to “megastructure” worldbuilding. Maintaining consistency is grueling, but since FGO’s launch, collaborators like other writers and Lasengle have become “lore custodians” alongside me.
They’ll call me out: “Wait, Nasu-sensei—doesn’t this contradict your notes from three years ago?” I’ll play it off with “Haha, whoops! These things happen~☆” …but critical errors get fixed immediately. We tread carefully, like walking on thin ice.
So even if minor details shift, as long as the “decade’s theme” remains unwavering, everything else falls into place.
──How do you decide when to transition between these “10-year themes”, Nasu-sensei?
Nasu Kinoko:
Audience values evolve dramatically over a decade. Sticking to the same theme for 10+ years turns you into a “monster regurgitating outdated ideas.” Hence, recalibration is necessary.
Also, let’s be real—any theme gets stale after 10 years!
── Earlier you mentioned “evolving aesthetics to match the times.” How do you perceive and adapt to these decade-long shifts in aesthetic sensibilities, Nasu-sensei?
Nasu Kinoko:
Well… Everyone perceives beauty differently. For most people, “aesthetic consciousness” remains quite abstract. In my youth, I was obsessed with surface beauty and structural perfection.
But since around 2015, I’ve come to find profound beauty in “surpassing impossible limits to survive”—those who struggle against overwhelming odds. To illustrate, it’s like a fish leaping desperately toward the sky. Though this might differ slightly from conventional “aesthetics.”
── So that’s how it is.
Nasu Kinoko:
That said, the otaku community’s aesthetic standards haverapidly becoming more and more sophisticated—this isn’t news anymore. We’ve evolved from the solitary craftsman’s “master your own skills” mentality to collaborative “harness collective strength to create greater works.”
The anime industry particularly reflects this shift. Legendary creators of the past often worked in isolation, rarely communicating with peers. But today’s brilliant young directors and animators excel at team synergy. “I’m skilled, but that person’s amazing too. Together, we can achieve something extraordinary.”
The ※Fate/Grand Order: The Movie – Divine Realm of the Round Table: Camelot – Paladin; Agateram perfectly embodies this philosophy. Though each storyboard artist brought distinct styles, their dazzling talents converged to create unprecedented quality. Witnessing this, I truly felt: “The era of collaboration has arrived. This is the age where geniuses unite.”
※Fate/Grand Order: The Movie – Divine Realm of the Round Table: Camelot – Paladin; Agateram
The theatrical adaptation of FGOPart 1 Chapter 6 “Divine Realm of the Round Table: Camelot.” Split into two films, its exceptional animation quality and direction earned widespread acclaim.
©TYPE-MOON / FGO6 ANIME PROJECT
Shaoji:
My second question is about collaborative writing in projects like FGO involving multiple scenario writers. How does the team coordinate the creative process—from initial brainstorming to final drafts? If you have any unique methodologies or memorable experiences to share, I’d love to learn from them!
Nasu Kinoko:
FGO was actually my first experience leading a multi-writer project. I start by defining the core narrative and explaining the game’s trajectory to the team—essentially creating “blueprints for the blueprints.”
For FGO Part 1 (Chapters 1–7), we needed to address pivotal events across human history. Tackling this alone would’ve been impossible—I’d have burned out by the North American or British chapters… So that’s where cooperation came in as I urged the writers: “Don’t approach this as guest contributors. Own these historical eras as if the entire story depends on you.”
The “blueprints” specified non-negotiable “payoff checkpoints” (e.g., “Chapter X must include Y revelation”). Beyond those, writers had full creative freedom as long as they don’t go against pre-determined checkpoints. Even if deviations occurred, I’d adjust the opening/ending myself. Over a year, we integrated each writer’s chapters in Part 1 while I overhauled transitions to maintain narrative cohesion.
Eventually, the team internalized “This is how Nasu revises”, requiring fewer edits as time went by. But this only works if all writers deeply understand Fate’s worldview—it’s impossible with newcomers.
So I might not have a perfect answer for Shaoji-sensei in that sense… My apologies.
──Now, may I ask Shaoji-sensei the reverse? Honkai: Star Rail also employs multiple writers. How is your team structured, and how do you advance the narrative?
Nasu Kinoko:
Indeed, I’m quite curious about this as well.
Shaoji:
Honkai: Star Rail operates under an ironclad rule: “Every 42 days, we must deliver a new version.” This deadline fundamentally shapes our narrative development process—especially for major storylines like the main scenario, which requires early team mobilization.
For example, during ※Honkai Impact 3rd’s development, 5–6 writers collaborated on story arcs spanning half a year or more. But Star Rail’s scale demands even greater parallelism—our core writing team now expands to 8–9 members for main story production.
The structure breaks down as follows: First, a Lead Narrative Director oversees the roadmap and pivotal story events. Under them, Chapter Core Writers steward each major story segment’s essential content.
Beyond writing, these Core Writers heavily support cross-disciplinary pipelines—character & scene design, quest flow orchestration, animation production, and more.
※Honkai Impact 3rd
The third installment in the Honkai series, where Shaoji also contributed as a writer. Part 1 concluded in 2023, and Part 2 is currently in production. While Star Rail isn’t a direct sequel, veterans will spot countless connections and Easter eggs between the two… right?
──”Chapter Core Writer”—what a novel concept! Given Star Rail’s narrative enormity, such specialized roles seem indispensable.
Shaoji:
Epic stories often split into “Part 1/Part 2” or trilogies. Core Writers own each segment’s creative spine. Thus, our hierarchy follows three tiers: Director → Chapter Core Writers → Staff Writers.
Admittedly, this model remains imperfect. As the team gains experience and hones skills, we’ll keep refining it.
We’re deeply grateful for players’ feedback on Star Rail’s story depth and quality. Whether for Star Rail or the broader Honkai universe, we’ll keep pushing boundaries to deliver narratives worthy of your journey.
──One naive question: With so many writers, how do you maintain unified vision and smooth communication?
Shaoji：
Exactly. Currently, our company emphasizes building “stable collaborative units.”
For instance, while Chapter Core Writers must frequently communicate with the Lead Narrative Director, I believe it’s equally crucial for them to maintain strong dialogue with their fellow team members.
Within a relatively “fixed” team, values, thought processes, and narrative approaches naturally enter a “quasi-shared state.” Though composed of multiple individuals, the team can operate with singular cohesion. When everyone’s rhythms align this seamlessly, workflows progress remarkably smoothly.
──So when crafting narratives, each writer’s individuality and “authorial voice” are clearly vital. How do you cultivate these qualities while building teams?
Shaoji:
First, “result-oriented thinking” is essential.
Did the story and characters achieve commercial success and engagement? Were they beloved by players? Was cross-departmental collaboration effective?… Every writer’s work undergoes outcome-based review and reflection—only through this can teams and individuals grow.
However, the soil that births “moving narratives” ultimately stems from creators’ inner worlds—the gradual unfolding of their perspectives. To fully harness “authorial voices,” having “shared objectives” becomes paramount. Put differently: though starting points differ, as teammates, we march toward the same destination.
Honkai: Star Rail’s foundational tone lies in “conveying positive values” and “ways to face life courageously.” With this established, even if writers’ approaches vary, major divergences rarely occur regarding “what outcomes the story should achieve.”
Reach consensus → Execute individually → Optimize collectively… We aggregate each writer’s strengths while reconciling potentially conflicting elements.
…That said, our team members are inherently kind-hearted—clashes over values or basic humanity hardly ever occur (laughs).
Nasu Kinoko:
Fundamentally, every writer possesses unique aesthetics and specialties.
Everyone’s different, of course, but as long as they have a fundamentally positive outlook and mutual respect, teamwork naturally comes together. FGO’s smaller-scale script production follows similar principles to Shaoji-sensei’s approach.
──In that case, how exactly does Honkai: Star Rail’s narrative team share thought processes and values?
Shaoji:
First, HoYoverse’s work environment is undoubtedly harmonious, but the challenges we face are equally intense. You could say there’s a shared identity among colleagues as “comrades fighting through hell together.”
Everyone:
(Laughs).
Shaoji:
Of course, I’m only half-joking!
But in reality, “the companions who stand by your side” are your colleagues—your team members. When confronting work or life’s difficulties, having allies beside you fosters a sense of trust—”someone always has my back.” It might not solve every problem, but it grants the courage to overcome obstacles together.
For example, when I was racing against deadlines for Penacony and Amphoreus’s storylines, my teammates stayed by my side, offering invaluable feedback. As I edited shared documents in the office, their comments kept appearing—”Ah, so everyone’s still here” (laughs).
These moments accumulate, forging camaraderie and providing emotional support. As Nasu-sensei mentioned earlier, the cornerstone of collaboration is recognizing each other’s expertise and respecting one another’s humanity.
■The Essential 〇〇Imagery for Modern Audiences
Shaoji:
Now, let me ask my third question. The Fate series is rooted in supernatural fantasy elements like “magic” and “souls,” yet settings like the “Atlas Institute,” the “Holy Grail War on the Moon,” and FGO’s Singularities/Lostbelts incorporate sci-fi elements.
How do you view this fusion of “fantasy” and “science fiction,” Nasu-sensei?
Nasu Kinoko:
I believe fantasy can be divided into two types…
One resembles ※The Lord of the Rings—a tale of dreams and hope, essentially a “fable” with strong allegorical ties to reality. The other is “wish-fulfillment fantasy,” centered on “Wouldn’t it be great if this existed?” or “This would bring joy if it’s real.”
My works belong to the latter.
But “Wouldn’t it be great if this existed?” must ultimately tie to technological progress. If fulfilled solely by a mysterious, mystical power, then it’s nothing more than an curious, quirky tale — and to me, that’s just not as interesting.
To make stories truly compelling, you need to weave in sci-fi imagery that sparks the thought in people living today: “Ah, I see… something like this could actually happen.”
Thus, a “compelling fantasy” necessitates sci-fi elements. Without them, works risk becoming mere “fables.” Though if that’s the goal, one might as well commit fully… but that drifts beyond entertainment’s scope.
※The Lord of the Rings
J.R.R. Tolkien’s classic fantasy epic, set in a world of elves and other races, profoundly influencing later fantasy works.
Tsukihime -A piece of blue glass moon-
©TYPE-MOON
Nasu Kinoko:
Again, this might sound like hindsight bias, but I don’t see it as blending sci-fi and fantasy so much as “merging what’s cool with what’s cool.” Honestly, I prefer “mystery” over pure fantasy—my writing naturally leans into logic-heavy storytelling, which is partly why my work skews sci-fi.
Shaoji:
Absolutely. Nasu-sensei’s works always emphasize “deduction” and “suspense.” I’m also a huge fan of detective stories and mystery titles like Danganronpa.
Even in Fate, the “Servant’s True Names” mechanic is genius. It hides characters’ backgrounds, trump cards, and narrative possibilities, maintaining intense suspense until the climax—dramatically heightening tension and payoff.
I think humans are inherently drawn to the “unknown.”
Worldbuilding and plot exist to channel that curiosity… Keeping the audience hungry to uncover mysteries is everything.
Nasu Kinoko:
Exactly.
Nothing beats the thrill of the unexplored.
──Traditional occult/fantasy works often showcase “magic” through rituals or incantations to convey power. But your approach feels more like “reverse-engineering spellcraft”—using sci-fi logic to amplify mysticism.
Nasu Kinoko:
That’s just becausein older fantasy, things like magic and animism—nature worship and reverence for the natural world—were considered quite “real.” Even though they couldn’t manifest in reality, the way they were depicted and developed made them accepted as something that “truly exists” within the world of the story. That made for compelling reads, but modern audiences don’t resonate the same way.
If you talk to modern audiences about “spells,” nature’s actions and reactions, or nature’s retribution, most would just stare blankly. But if you mention systems or technologies that humanity might one day achievesuddenly becoming reality ahead of time—that’s far more likely to evoke either fear or intense fascination. That’s all there is to it.
■What’s Next for DDD?
Shaoji:
My final question…As a reader, I’m dying to know: What happens next in ※DDD?!
Nasu Kinoko:
Ah…… AHHHHHHHHHH～～～～～!!!
YEEEEESH—!!
I’ve become that cat meme.
Everyone:
(Laughs).
※DDD (Decoration Disorder Disconnection)
A novel series written by Nasu Kinoko, themed around “demon possession,” holding a unique position among TYPE-MOON’s works. Originally planned as a trilogy, with two volumes currently published.
ⒸKINOKO NASU 2022
Nasu Kinoko:
Uh… well… maybe in a different parallel world, it could happen?
──So there’s no hope?!
Nasu Kinoko:
The backlog is just too overwhelming right now…
That said, some of the concepts originally meant for DDD have already been repurposed in FGO. This isn’t “borrowing from the future”—it’s more like, after considering DDD’s core themes, I decided to use them elsewhere.
For example, in FGO, the fourth Beast of Humanity, Beast IV, embodies the Logos of Comparison, which is actually the same ability possessed by Kanata Ishizue from DDD. The idea is that once a comparison is made, one side must surpass the other. Comparison itself isn’t inherently bad, but viewed through the lens of human nature’s darker aspects, it inevitably turns into something malicioius. That said, in practice, this ability is practically invincible.
…This was something I’d established early in DDD’s development. But since I didn’t have time to continue DDD… well, FGO got it instead. Oops, I’ve said too much! Forget I mentioned anything!
Shaoji:
I knew it!
When I first read DDD, I was still a student. I desperately wanted a sequel. I even had that bittersweet feeling of “what if I never get to reunite with the story I love again…”
Nasu Kinoko:
Awww…
Shaoji:
But after becoming a writer myself and being exposed to works like FGO, I started wondering: “Maybe Nasu-sensei has already repurposed what he wanted to express in DDD into other works?” Once I realized that, my regret suddenly dissipated!
Today, as a fan, I got to ask so many questions. Thank you for your answers!
Nasu Kinoko:
You’re too kind… hearing something that heartfelt really makes me want to say “xiexie”. It’s exactly because there are readers who feel that way, that I have no excuse to give up…!
──Including DDD, we can feel Shaoji-sensei’s genuine passion for TYPE-MOON’s works. Have any elements from Nasu-sensei’s creations actually influenced your approach to storytelling?
Shaoji:
This might take a while to explain…
First, the Fate series is a long-standing, incredibly resilient IP—one that’s grown alongside an entire generation.
For example, I first encountered Fate/stay night’s anime in middle school. By high school, spin-offs like Fate/EXTRA kept appearing… For the teenage me, it was pure joy.
Back then, I was too young to fully grasp Fate’s themes. But that hollow ache after finishing a story? It never left me. Chewing on that emptiness, I realized: “Stories have a life of their own.”
In college, FGO launched—it became the soundtrack to my university years. When I entered adulthood, TYPE-MOON’s influence followed.
This might sound silly, but… I once read a magazine tidbit about TYPE-MOON’s pre-commercial days. At sunset, Takeuchi-sensei led Nasu-sensei onto a balcony and said: “(Nasu), just do what you want.”
Nasu Kinoko:
Yeah, I was trapped by self-doubt back then, ready to quit. He told me: “You’re incredible—now go create. I’ll cover six months of your living expenses.”
Shaoji:
Reading that, I thought: “No matter what, chase what matters to yourself.” There’s no guaranteed path to success after all. But if you hold back? Decades later, only regret remains.
Looking back, that childhood melancholy was really a longing for “heroism.” And as adults facing life’s weight, that longing becomes inner strength.
Shaoji:
That’s funny, in school, I’d constantly imagine: “What if I got dragged into a Holy Grail War?” So I picked up tons of survival skills.
Nasu Kinoko:
Whoa, now that’s dedication!
Shaoji:
Seeing Fate/stay night spawn countless spin-offs taught me about IP longevity: “Stories end, but IP endures.”
Take the Honkai series—it might last years, or decades. Until its finale, countless creators will join, breathing new life into it. That collective storytelling? Absolutely rad. And this IP philosophy? It’s rooted in how TYPE-MOON builds worlds.
Shaoji:
When it comes to narrative influences, it’s definitely “how characters utilize their abilities and personalities.”
There’s a meme well-known on the Chinese internet… In Fate/zero, Lancelot’s Noble Phantasm “Knight of Owner” lets him turn anything he touches into his weapon. So people joke: “If Lancelot did a handstand and touched the ground, would he turn the entire Earth into his Noble Phantasm?”
Everyone:
(Laughs).
Shaoji:
I adore this kind of creative thinking, so when writing, I focus on “how characters weaponize their uniqueness.”
For example, in Penacony’s story:”Sunday restricts Aventurine’s lies using Harmony’s power”; “Acheron erases her presence with Nihility’s power”. These are small but clever applications of their Path abilities. Such “tricks” make characters feel real—like they’d use the same ingenuity in daily life.
──I can absolutely feel Shaoji-sensei’s passion.
Nasu Kinoko:
I’m honored.
If my work can inspire new growth, then the struggle was worth it!
Shaoji-sensei called Fate “a living work”—that phrasing is brilliant. Though “living” implies vigor, personally, I’ve been flailing to survive (laughs).
Clawing and screaming “I won’t die!”, even when handed impossible tasks, thinking “I’ll find a way!”… Before I knew it, the series had branched wildly, and I’d become tenacious, like building muscle through strain.
Hearing this is incredibly motivating.
Yes, those were 20 explosive years of “life.”
──By the way, Shaoji-sensei, where do you see Fate’s “tenacious vitality” most?
Shaoji:
Well… I’ve been involved in developing the Honkai series for many years now, walking this journey alongside countless players. And over time, my understanding of what “vitality” truly means has deepened.
Nasu-sensei mentioned “those 20 explosive years”—during that time, he communicated with the world through his sstories and perspectives. For the audience, that becomes a source of energy, or rather, the very origin of vitality itself. And perhaps, that’s the true essence of what we call being moved.
That kind of inspiration and emotional impact drawn from a work stays with us. And when the time comes to make an important, life-defining decision, it can give us the strength to do so — just like when I saw news about the two of you, and decided to “follow what I truly love.” That’s the kind of vitality I hope to bring to the Honkai series as well.”
That spark keeps igniting new creators… Including this “way of creation” itself—that’s “tenacious vitality” in action.
Nasu Kinoko:
Exactly. When writing, I tell myself: “Pour everything you have into this.” Even with limited talent, never muddle through it, never take shortcuts. I’ve clung to this for decades.
The reason I do this is simply because I want my works to endure for 10, 20 years. What I pursue is the “immortality” of the work itself. As long as I keep writing this way, whether it’s 10 or 20 years later, the stories will never truly fade away. And this, perhaps, is what we call “vitality.”
This philosophy might be why Fate survives… or so I tell myself. Though the path here was brutal (laughs)
■Nasu Kinoko’s Perspective on “The Changing Generations of Mobile Games” ──Now, let’s change the topic. Earlier, we heard Nasu-sensei mention that “(in this discussion) it’s necessary to talk about the generational shift in mobile games.” Why did you feel this was important to address?
Nasu Kinoko:
This is a long story, so let me break it down step by step.
Before I started working on FGO—around 2010 or so—mobile games were still seen as little more than “time-wasters” compared to console games. Most mobile games back then couldn’t even be considered proper games, but as mobile hardware evolved, they gradually began to take on more substantial forms.
Even so, if console games were like hour-and-a-half-long feature films, mobile games were more like four-panel comics—entertaining, but over in a flash.
Then, mobile games evolved further. By the era of Chain Chronicle, Granblue Fantasy, and FGO, they had reached a level comparable to weekly serialized manga.
Console games are rich and lavish, but mobile games carved out their own value through daily playability and features like “building connections between players outside the game itself.” This was the landscape for our generation, including FGO.
Nasu Kinoko:
But then ※Genshin Impact appeared.
Whether by luck or misfortune, the long-standing gap in gameplay depth between mobile and console games—to put it bluntly, the “one-tier-below” disadvantage—was closed. After Genshin Impact, newer mobile games began achieving a level of quality that could rival console games. This marks the first point of generational shift.
※Genshin Impact
An open-world adventure RPG by HoYoverse, released in 2020. The game follows the protagonist’s journey through the fantasy world of Teyvat and remains immensely popular to this day. ──Genshin Impact is, in a sense, a work that transcended the boundaries of mobile games.
Nasu Kinoko:
This changes the entire playing field.
I believe that within the development team of Honkai: Star Rail, including Shaoji-sensei, there are many staff members striving to create exceptional products. And this makes perfect sense… To be specific, if a writer crafts a high-quality script for a scene, it then requires a massive workforce to translate it into equally high-quality animation.
For traditional RPG games like FGO, if a writer produces a solid script for a scene, it only takes roughly the same amount of manpower as the writer to bring that scene to life in the game.
But for modern mobile games that rival console titles in quality, after the writer delivers a great script, it then demands dozens of times more manpower to create a “truly outstanding in-game scene.” The resource investment is staggering—frankly, if a console game studio operated like this, it would spell disaster. Very few games can sustain 30 hours of high-quality cutscenes and meticulously crafted animations, yet Genshin Impact achieved it.
To deliver storytelling at this scale—immersive, emotionally resonant, and updated every six weeks while maintaining long-term operations—requires an enormous budget and workforce. Even some console games today struggle to match this.
If you want premium entertainment now, you might have to turn to AAA-level mobile games… Well, it seems everyone already thinks this way, so I might as well say it outright. I believe this generational shift has already arrived.
Our generation worked hard to elevate the value of mobile games, but it’s the new forces like HoYoverse that have pushed it even further. And right now, China’s gaming industry is in a “Warring States” era—only the strongest, most captivating works survive. There’s no competition more intense than this.
Nasu Kinoko:
That said, the more high-quality content HoYoverse delivers in such short cycles, the higher players'”appetite threshold” rises… until they become piranhas, relentlessly demanding more! So, keep up the good work! ──And Shaoji-sensei is right in the thick of this development model.
Shaoji:
Hence why I call it hell (laughs).
Everyone:
(Laughs)
Nasu Kinoko:
It must be!
Even FGO, a classic, struggles with this… let alone a game of this scale with global simultaneous updates! That’s beyond human endurance!
Shaoji:
But overthinking won’t change anything. If anything, having the chance to create stories of this magnitude is a privilege—so we focus entirely on the work before us. After all, reality is a journey where we lose things along the way!
Nasu Kinoko:
I see… Once you start, there’s no… ──In FGO, Nasu-sensei adopted a Weekly Shonen Jump or TV anime-style approach, deliberately crafting content that sparks immediate discussion about future developments. Meanwhile, Honkai: Star Rail expands beyond the game with animated PVs, livestreams, and more.
Nasu Kinoko:
Exactly.
Beyond the game itself, real-world tie-ins are incredibly thorough—it’s like, “From waking up to going to bed, from cradle to grave, HoYoverse has you covered!” (laughs).
Of course, Japanese developers also understand the importance of fostering players’ love for their games by creating and expanding the right environment… and they’ve been doing this for years. But HoYoverse is putting even more effort into this, on a far grander stage. I’m excited to see what kind of “dreamscape” tomorrow’s Star Rail LIVE will showcase.
Shaoji:
Many at HoYoverse grew up deeply influenced by weekly manga and anime, so we fully grasp the importance of “cultivating strong bonds through real-time companionship.”
I’d love to update the story weekly, but that’s just not feasible (laughs).
Nasu Kinoko:
If you tried to produce content of that quality at that pace, your team would perish!!──This next question might be a bit sensitive. As “otaku culture” continues to develop and flourish in China… While this must be gratifying, do you also feel a tinge of… melancholy?
Nasu Kinoko:
Then all I can say is “Go play ※Archetype Inception”… When you encounter outstanding works from predecessors, of course you think, “I want to create something like this.”
But those who recognize the brilliance of past works are usually people who lived through that era themselves. They know things the younger generation doesn’t—and someday, I’ll be like that too.
As for why I’ve kept striving all this time… it’s probably because I could revel in it with my contemporaries. To live alongside them. I firmly believe this culture will only grow more wonderful.
So as long as otaku culture exists in the world, I couldn’t care less where it thrives.
※Ordeal Call III: Neo–Primate Succession War (Archetype Inception)
A chapter in FGO’s “Ordeal Call” arc, written by Nasu Kinoko. A rare case where a “summer swimsuit event” storyline fed back into the main plot. Its themes of “AI” and “Primate Succession” resonated deeply with players.
■Why the “Ode to Humanity” Resonates ──”Archetype Inception” feels like a culmination of themes Nasu-sensei has explored for years. Yet after experiencing it as a fan, one might worry: “Is Nasu-sensei planning to retire after this…?”
Nasu Kinoko:
I do wish I could retire!
Everyone:
(Laughs)
Nasu Kinoko:
“Archetype Inception” really is a kind of culmination of the themes I’ve been exploring over the past ten years. Honestly, it’s something I’ve wanted to bring up for a long time… The timing just finally felt right. And now that I’ve finally figured out what kind of ending I want to prepare for FGO, I felt it was time to lay it all out clearly here.
Humans aren’t immortal. While youthful self-centeredness is fine, “that day” comes for everyone. This story is about preparing your heart for it…
Including “Ode to Humanity,” these are themes our great predecessors grappled with repeatedly. That thought brings both wistfulness… and joy.
Nasu Kinoko:
But due to external factors, I was told “This character will be released this summer—you need to incorporate them!” So to some extent, that also influenced the direction (laughs). These coincidences kept piling up, and in the end, “Archetype Inception” turned out remarkably polished.
So even though I wrote something like this, it doesn’t mean I’m retiring! ──It’s wonderful to hear this. Speaking of which, both Nasu-sensei and Shaoji-sensei’s stories frequently feature “Ode to Humanity.” What drew you to this theme?
Nasu Kinoko:
If you set out to “write about a human life,” it inevitably becomes an ode to humanity. Whether the subject is a king or a beggar, a hero or a soldier… as long as you’re depicting an entire life, this is unavoidable.
I learned this by reading countless classics.
Those “stories that move people” always capture the full spectrum of life. By portraying a character’s beginning and end, then drawing conclusions, readers gain lessons and emotional resonance. So stories, by nature, become “odes to humanity.
Though I might think this way simply because Nasu Kinoko has always been a bit of a whimsical, floaty person to begin with…
Everyone:
(Laughs)
Shaoji:
Compared to Nasu-sensei, I’m still growing and learning—my perspective keeps evolving… When writing for Honkai Impact 3rd, I was in my late twenties, grappling with the vastness of the world through self-reflection.
I wanted to find my own way of facing the world—one that could address the struggles most people encounter. No matter how much ugliness exists, there’s always beauty too.
Moreover, even against insurmountable odds, humans will always have moments of “awakening.”
It might be an emotional impulse, something that’s even reckless, but I believe this instinct, this “desire to steer the world toward a better fate” is intrinsic to the human soul… That was my understanding of “Ode to Humanity” while crafting Honkai Impact 3rd’s story.
Shaoji:
Now, as part of Honkai: Star Rail’s development, my perspective has evolved further.
This game’s player base and target audience are far larger, so I wanted to explore the “modern societal issues” more people grapple with.
For example, there’s the rise of ※ “modern nihilism”—theaimlessness and pain about the future, the crushing weight of reality… In this context, simply writing “believe in humanity’s strength” would ring hollow.
What occurred to me is that life is always shaped by “love” and “hatred.”
※Nihilism
A worldview asserting that “life has no inherent purpose or meaning, and human actions hold no value.” ──”Love” and “hatred,” you say?
Shaoji:
First, “hatred” is a fierce emotion. We must acknowledge that against vast emptiness and suffering, people need fuel to endure. “Hatred” is rebellion—sometimes violent, sometimes sardonic—a force potent enough to shatter helplessness. The tougher the era, the more intense collective resentment becomes.
Yet I still believe “love” and “hatred” are equals. Hatred can never be satiated; it can’t nourish the soul. When negativity fades, what remains is a craving for “love.” That’s why memories are romanticized—because what people truly desire is nurture and care.
For live-service games like Star Rail, after years of companionship, the story’s conclusion must leave players with “love.” As time passes, I hope this “past emotion” becomes emotional sustenance.
Frankly, reality is harsh—that’s why “kindness” needs more portrayal, to remind everyone they’re not alone.
Nasu Kinoko:
Hmm, I think that’s well put.
Earlier, I said “depicting a full human life naturally becomes an Ode to Humanity”—because it lets people achieve what they’d given up on… No, more accurately, it’s my hope that the story inspires them to accomplish those things. I’ve always wanted people to find some form of “recompense” or fulfillment in the end, and that desire has remained constant from the very beginning.
That so-called “recompense” can take many forms: it might be realizing your true self, receiving love from others, finding your own answers, or even simply letting go and finding peace in acceptance… But for those who witness that journey, they inevitably project it onto themselves.Some may reject it, while others may feel encouraged; and I believe that’s precisely why an “Ode to Humanity” has the power to truly move people.
Shaoji-sensei’s words is actually quite close to what I’ve always wanted to express. Humanity’s survival hinges on “goodwill.” If malice dominated, we’d have perished long ago. So goodwill must exist.
And precisely because goodwill is so widespread in this world, people often overlook it.
Meanwhile, malice stands out so sharply, simply because it’s rarer.
Though we seldom notice, goodwill is the bedrock of our existence.
So rather than saying I believe in kindness, it’s more accurate to say “I hope goodwill exists in this world”, and “I hope that everyone will continue to protect this goodwill within humanity.”
■Why Things Ends, Why Death Comes
──FGO will reach the finale of Part 2 this year. Naturally, we’d like to hear Nasu-sensei’s thoughts on this. At the same time, we’d also like to ask: How do Nasu-sensei and Shaoji-sensei view “a satisfying way for a game to conclude”? Especially for mobile games, this must be a difficult challenge.
Nasu Kinoko:
Earlier, Shaoji-sensei mentioned feeling “a hollow ache” after finishing Fate/stay night, right? I had a similar experience when I completed ※FF4.
Back then, I was so absorbed in the game that by the ending, I thought: “How am I supposed to live from tomorrow onward? Maybe I should just die.” The moment the game ended, I felt an overwhelming emptiness—but looking back now, that feeling was closer to “frustration.” Specifically: “Why can’t this last forever?” And it’s precisely because of that frustration that I’m able to create good works today.
When a game’s world reaches its conclusion, no matter how beautiful the ending, closure brings frustration. That frustration and sorrow are proof that the game’s story meant something. Conversely, if a story never ends, it gives the impression that “the characters are alive, but no longer fighting”… Because a life without an endpoint is far too painful.
So from the very beginning, we decided FGO would have a proper ending. While the fact that it will end is non-negotiable, if an overwhelming wave of player demand crashes down on us, we might have no choice but to yield. After all, Aniplex is the publisher!
Everyone:
(Laughs)
Nasu Kinoko:
But since this is a mobile game, we’re still thinking about how to craft an ending that leverages the medium’s strengths.
Sorry, but we’re going to take the first step!
The early bird gets the worm!
※FF4
The fourth installment in the Final Fantasy series and the first released on the Super Famicom. It introduced the Active Time Battle (ATB) system and was highly praised for its narrative.
──Shaoji-sensei, you were also involved in Honkai Impact 3rd’s Part 1 finale, correct?
Shaoji:
The Honkai series was always meant to have an ending—or at least, a stopping point. We structure the story by working backward from the conclusion.
Our games emphasize “the time spent with players and the journey of growing together.” Just like real players, the characters mature over time, reaching different stages of life. And because of that, there inevitably comes a moment of “farewell.”
So how do we say goodbye?
This isn’t just the story’s end—it’s the moment we deliver “the answer.”
The difference is, even after clearing the game, players still have “tomorrow” waiting for them.
So even when the story concludes, it should leave behind “a theme strong enough to step forward with”—a driving force to keep moving ahead. And when players look back on it someday, we want them to find love and courage still lingering in their hearts. That’s the kind of ending we aim to create. ──Allow me to follow up on “conclusion methods.” When depicting “a character’s final moments” or “exit scenes,” it seems both Nasu-sensei and Shaoji-sensei pour considerable effort into them. What do you two particularly prioritize when writing “a character’s ending”?
Nasu Kinoko:
Writing a character’s ending is especially calorie-intensive.
Once a character’s role concludes, they can no longer carry the narrative forward. So everything the character “embodies” must be conveyed through brief lines—or even without words at all. This is the creator’s responsibility, and also their pressure.
Put another way: If you can’t deliver the best possible final scene, what was the point of building up this character all along?
And that’s why it burns so many calories.
So before writing these scenes, I make sure to clean myself up and confirm I’m in good physical condition (laughs). While any scene consumes energy, a character’s last moments demand the most—to the point my body heats up.
Shaoji:
I can relate.
Work aside, I love when characters meet their end at the peak of their lives—everyone concluding the story in the most spectacular way possible. In contrast, a slow decline into weakness fills me with sorrow and dread.
──Earlier, Nasu-sensei mentioned “wanting his works to achieve immortality.” Through their final acts and deaths, perhaps characters, too, can become “immortal.”
Nasu Kinoko:
Because they turn into “legends.”
A character’s last moments might be dazzling or tragic… Whether shrouded in darkness or light, that final scene etches itself into players’ hearts. It might inspire them or offer lessons—this is what every writer should strive for, and, allow me to say this without shame, it’s always been my goal.
Shaoji:
Here’s an analogy… Most lives are spent answering “How do I face death?” The reason character deaths resonate so deeply is likely because everyone grapples with this question.
In their last moments, characters attempt to provide an “answer.”
While writing, we often feel that once a character reaches a certain point, they break free from our control. They surpass our understanding and knowledge, charging toward their own ending. They move on their own and deliver “answers” we never conceived.
Nasu Kinoko:
Occasionally, we do get characters who “defy the writer’s plans mid-scene.”
But I think this depends on the writer’s style.
For example, if you predetermine a character’s traits and simulate “This guy would probably act like this,” there comes a point where they naturally deviate from expectations.
Like with dialogue—you expect a clean “Yes” to end the page, but they says “No” instead! Ugh—now you’ve got 10 more pages to write!! …That kind of thing (laughs).
Nasu Kinoko:
When a character grows this way, what frustrates writers the most?
It’ss realizing that, for this character, their final line is often their most essential truth.
Characters who evolve through “unplanned narrative moments” no longer belong to the author—they become wholly owned by the story itself. This does happen occasionally. And once a character fully “belongs to the story,” their dying words often defy the author’s intent, leaving you thinking: “Of all things, this is what they say at the end…?” There’s a peculiar charm to it.
For example, if they suddenly gasp “Ramen…!”, you’d blurt “Wait, you loved ramen that much?!” (laughs). Yet even such a line reveals what mattered most to them. For writers, these moments are a rare reward.
──So Nasu-sensei prefers this “simulation-based” approach?
Nasu Kinoko:
Exactly.
While “creating alternate personalities (to write about) in your mind” sounds cool, I just decide “This character would do this” and commit to it.
So when characters “reject the script,” I also think “No way they’d obediently say ‘Yes’ here.” This snowballs into bloated word counts, leaving Lasengle in tears.
Everyone:
(Laughs)
Nasu Kinoko:
What seems spontaneous is actually the culmination of a writer’s long-term character logic. The longer a trait’s been established, the stricter you must honor it. The more faithful the writer, the likelier characters stray from the outline.
Stubborn writers ignore this buildup, forcing the plot forward, and readers, when they take note of it, always notice the dissonance. It’s not uncommon. But hey, that kind of thing happens all the time.
──Shaoji-sensei, do you also “simulate” characters?
Shaoji:
Absolutely.
Frankly, anything less would rob them of authenticity.
■If the World Faces Annihilation────
──For our final topic, does Shaoji-sensei have any last questions for Nasu-sensei? Today, we’ve felt your deep love for TYPE-MOON—if there’s anything else you’d like to discuss, now’s the time!
Nasu Kinoko:
Don’t bite—!
Don’t take the bait—!!
Shaoji-sensei, no pressure.
Shaoji:
This conversation has been an incredible honor. Throughout today, one scenario kept replaying in my mind:
What if the worst happens—and the world ends? Hypothetically.
Amid scorched ruins, a child powers on an old TV. The screen flickers to life: “Fate/stay night.” In this wasteland, a cloaked man kneels beside them and murmurs: “Did you know? I once met Nasu Kinoko.”
Everyone:
(Bursts into laughter).
Shaoji:
In the next moment, the child turns around—revealing they are the man’s younger self.
“Well? I didn’t let you down, did I?”——and with that line, the curtain falls.
Nasu Kinoko:
Hmm… To put it simply: I’m just glad the baton got passed!!
Ah, I actually had similar thoughts in my twenties!
Watching your favorite story at the end of the world… with a little girl, maybe six years old, standing beside you in a black apron. This girl named Alice would bring me a book and say: “Papa, can you read this to me?” And I’d reply: “Sure! This book here…” Back then, I thought “If I can share my favorite stories with someone, I could die a happy man” (laughs).
Ahh, what a perfect handoff!
──Please don’t retire too soon.
Nasu Kinoko:
See, this is why I keep getting told that…
Of course I don’t want the apocalypse, but someday when young players ask “Wait, Kinoko, you actually collabed with HoYoverse?!”, I’ll proudly say “Of course I did!” (laughs).
(Placeholder: Finalized thumbnail here)
Nasu Kinoko:
One last casual question—why the pen name “Shaoji” (Fried Chicken)?
Shaoji:
I actually used a different pen name before.
Funny thing is, that old pen name sounded like “Shaoji” in Chinese pronunciation, so when I was introducing myself, the producer misheard it. Plus, “Shaoji” is easy to remember—so it stuck.
Nasu Kinoko:
Makes sense!
A pen name should be catchy.
Everyone:
(Laughs).
- Closing Remarks
This was essentially “Ordeal Call III: Archetype Inception” in dialogue form.
I’m sure some of you felt the same.
Strangely enough, we hadn’t planned it this way, yet the conversation naturally mirrored Archetype Inception. Inheritance. Generational shift. This discussion laid bare that history.
Humans endure—whether through thousands, millions, or even billions of mistakes.
The history of creation is no different. It persists, and it’s passed on.
Even as eras and nations change, it will evolve into something better.
Let me share something personal… Like Shaoji-sensei, I first encountered FGO as a student. It stunned me—”How can something this compelling exist?”—and by chance, it led me to my current career. So I’d say the baton was passed flawlessly! And I bet you’ve caught it too!
We, the living, will someday “pass our batons” as well. There will come a time to entrust the future of humanity—proof we existed—to others. And precisely because of that, we need to give it our all right now, to enjoy the present to the fullest while we still can
And now, the Honkai: Star Rail × Fate/stay night collaboration is finally about to begin!
For the sake of that future day,
let’s savor this crossover to the fullest.
(Honkai: Star Rail download link)
(TYPE-MOON official website link)
- Title
[A Special Dialogue]Nasu Kinoko (Fate) × Shaoji (Honkai: Star Rail) ― The Inherited Ode to Humanity & The Generational Passing of the Torch Among Creators
- Post Text
[A Special Dialogue]
Nasu Kinoko (Fate) × Shaoji (Honkai: Star Rail) ― The Inherited Ode to Humanity & The Generational Passing of the Torch Among Creators
Why celebrate humanity’s greatness?
What is inherited when generations change?
Nasu Kinoko:Those “stories that move people” always capture the full spectrum of life.